First, someone mentioned that Mark Driscoll had deemed certain areas of culture unredeemable. I think stripping was mentioned. I’m not sure how this relates to a type or style of “music” that is used to create an atmosphere of expression of praise to God and also honors him in a worship context. I think Mark would say that expressions of something may be unredeemable. In the stripping example, sexuality isn’t unredeemable — but the expression of that sexuality is. That boils it down to the original thoughts. We all agree that worship in spirit and truth is acceptable, but are there forms of it that aren’t. Are there elements of cultural music that just can’t be redeemed and used? I’d say probably not. The following responses I saw will help me explain…

*****Dangers or impracticalities in terms of corporate participation would include:
1) songs that are hard to chant along with or sing along with because of the tempo and lyrical complexity,

If this is the case then 1/3 of the hymns that I have sung should be thrown out. There are so many great hymns with syncopated rhythms and ranges that make most in the congregration uncomfortable. (on a side note, I think it should be illegal for a worship song to go above a D# for a congragation. ). Some of the best songs I remember simply because of the complexity.

2) lyrics that only make sense to a small minority of the congregation due of overuse of slang and creative wordplay (you might have to teach the people what the language means),

This one made me smile. Here I raise my (or mine) Ebonezer…. nuff said on that one. I know I didn’t spell it right and I let it through spell checker. I’ve explained to congregations and still don’t quite get it. If this is the case then songs that mention deep truths like propitiation, sanctification, the Trinity, etc should be avoided because they don’t make sense to a LOT of people. (Teaching the congregation sound theology is another topic in itself.) If this is what we go by, then we should stick with songs like Just As I Am, Lord I Lift Your Name on High and I Have Decided to Follow Jesus.

3) troubleshooting with those who legalistically think that it’s wrong and therefore don’t want to participate and stir up trouble and cause division (much like when rock music hit the church).

This one made me laugh…like belly ache laugh. I have never been at a church where there wasn’t an issue with trouble shooting on something. I’m sure I’ll offend some here — and I apologize in advance — but I have to say it. Baptist Congregations get so caught up in the little things that many times they make compromises that no one likes just so no one is really happy. Case in point (and this is somewhat a joke) — the committee that selects carpet. I think 80% of churches built in the 70s and 80s have that mauve/purplish color carpet. The ones built prior to that installed the same carpet when things were renovated. It is just awful. It is so bad that you can’t even really replicate it on a computer accurately. Here is what I think led to the choice…

No one who picked the carpet actually LIKED it. It was probably the one carpet color that everyone disliked – so it got chosen out of trying to avoid the troubleshooting.

It is late… so forgive the rambling, but I have never been in a church that didn’t have division or troubleshooting. Some were just good at handling it (peacemakers) and others were not (peacekeepers).

Summing all this yapping up… I think ultimately worship should be something that brings God glory — in what ever style that best does that. I have more of a problem with the content of the songs. Some of the sacred untouchables are really not God centered but me centered when you think about it.

Just a few thoughts… fun discussion.

However as mentioned already, the logistics might be hard as far as getting everyone to say the words on beat and everything. It would definitely be good as background music. My church recently used similar music as background for a crowd similar to yours and it was successful.

I think somebody already mentioned Lacrae but he is a really good artist. I’m not really inclined to that stye but I like Lacrae and also Toby Mac, I think his stuff would appeal to them.

Anyways, sounds like you’re on the right track. Just remember the most important thing is the message, that it points them to Jesus. In the end that is what will matter and not the style of music…

I do believe that it can shed some light on the GOSEPL and can start or spark a flame so to speak. Which can cause people to hear the WORD more.

On the Flip Side.

If it is used as a toll to start and then there is following of some sort of preaching so that they hear about CHRIST and not just the music then it could be very helpful.

Here is the one negative that I was exposed to with the Holy Hip.

I went to a concert where the Church was actually a Hip Hop church so that was used in their service, there were people from other Churches there it was a youth night kind of thing.

Some of the things they were saying while in between songs were “THIS IS NOT SUNDAY GET UP AND PARTY” the problem dosn’t seem big but what they have now done is put into the youth’s mind is that SUNDAY is boring and that they have been worshiping wrong. So it all depends on how it is used and who is SPEAKING I would think.

Just my thoughts

As long as Christ is being up lifted that is the main goal, For we do know that when He is lifted up he will draw all men to Him.

Great post God Bless YA

I’m excited about what you and Ronnie are doing! We will lift up your event in prayer tonight. Regardless of music, getting that relationship built is key. I hope to be able to write more soon but i’m currently at work!

“To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. ”
1 Corinthians 9:21-23

Farid
Chicago, IL

I’m pleased to hear that you brought this issue up. God bless you and those at Valley Station for trying to reach those who actually live in your community.

There is no doubt that Hip Hop can be used to bring glory to God. The issue of listening to God honoring Hip Hop for your listening pleasure I think is an easy issue. As far as worship goes, it all depends on the culture of the congregation. Some congregations would never welcome and drum set, turn table, or guitar. Then again, some congregations think that organs are only valuable as firewood.

I do think that any and all type of music would be appropriate, but I think the line is hard to define. Scripture points to us worshipping in spirit and truth. Obviously, the truth part is easy to define. Do the songs we sing contain biblical truth that exalts Christ and brings glory to God? The spirit part is a little harder to define. I believe this is talking about the spiritual side of worship. This is the part where we express with our will and emotions the praise and admiration that is due to our King.

Can Hip Hop music be used to worship God in spirit and truth? I think so. It’s hard to say where the line is, but if you see it happening I think you can say whether or not it’s true worship.

You already know everything that I said, but I hope this helps all of us as we think through this issue. God bless you in your quest to remain culturally relevant while never sacrificing biblical truth and the glorification of our Lord!

That is awesome!!!

For another angle check out the mixture of rap and senior adult choir?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1kjkUAA9VM

http://www.jimhamilton.info/