Guest Blog by Steven A. McKinion
He is the Associate Professor of Theology and Patristic Studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has taught Theology, Church History, Hermeneutics, and Historcial Theology classes at Southeastern Seminary. Dr. McKinion’s area of specialization is Patristic Theology. He holds the following degrees: B.A., Mississippi College; M.A., University of Mobile; Ph.D., King’s College, University of Aberdeen.
Part one of this series is available here, part two is available here.
Second generation conservatives who have been addressing the trend of many 3gens to question the value of the bureaucracy of the SBC recognize that these 3gens are not asking for a seat at the SBC table, they are instead just leaving the room when they hear those around the table disrespect them, belittle them, or, even worse, talk about their own positions, power, or prominence. These 3gens think they have too much to do in their own churches to spend their time trying to earn some “right to have their voice heard” in the SBC.
Seeing the many current 2gen leaders are interested in keeping 3gen Southern Baptists within the SBC, I would like to identify four misconceptions about these 3gen Conservatives:
3gens want to run the SBC. It is a myth that 3gens simply want to run the convention. Such a misconception is the result of not only a misreading of what 3gens are saying, but a complete misunderstanding of the importance, or lack thereof, of the SBC in the weekly ministries of these leaders. While many younger SB pastors want to have titles in their state conventions or be invited to speak in revival meetings at other churches, the 3gens that I have been writing about could not care less about having a role in the SBC. Obviously, there are exceptions, but the 3gens I teach and hear from are not looking for positions or influence within the convention. In fact, the reason why so many 2gens have begun to take notice is because these younger pastors do NOT want a place at the SBC table. They don’t want to be trustees, revival speakers, or have meaningless titles in the state conventions. Instead, they are wondering what in the world their state conventions do that is of Great Commission value. The reason they are partnering with church planting groups like Acts 29, is because its networked churches actually succeed. The model of church planting, including on-going cooperation and partnership, works better to start biblical and Baptist churches than other models, including many of those within the SBC. Because many 3gens think the SBC bureaucracy is bloated, it is foolish to think they would want to run it. I think one cause for this misconception is that those who either already have power in the convention or the 3gens who want one day to have “earned” that power, fail to realize that not every one thinks SBC power is valuable. Such myopic thinking about the value of what one possesses often can lead one to project ones own ambitions to others.
3gens want their voice heard by SBC leaders. It is believed by some that younger SBs want a seat around the SB table where they can have input. This is a misconception, much like the former myth, that is based in the false belief that 3gens want their voice to be heard. They not only are not looking for a seat at the table, they are not even interested in being in the boardroom. Again, there are obvious exceptions, but the younger SBs who are the interest of 2gen leaders are not looking for a hearing. In their minds, the discussions in the SBC boardroom are about how to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic, quite useless. They do not have an interest of determining who the next president of the SBC will be, or what friends can be appointed to trustee positions, or how they can be invited to speak at another church. In the minds of 3gens, they want to be busy in their own churches rather than trying to control other churches. Now, whether their assessment of what 1gen leaders are doing is itself a misconception is another topic, and an important one. But to think that under 40 SBs are simply looking to have influence in the convention is a grave misunderstanding of what these 3gens are saying. Such a misunderstanding is often rooted in an arrogance regarding the positions one already possesses rather than any evidence that someone else is aspiring to that position.
3gens don’t love the SBC. What is the SBC? Technically, it is a brief business meeting once a year. Churches who pool their financial resources to support agencies, boards, and commissions (the IMB, NAMB, six seminaries, the ERLC, etc.) are allowed to send messengers (not delegates) to this business meeting for the purpose of appointing trustees to operate those agencies on behalf of the churches. But the SBC is more broadly the associative relationship of those churches that goes beyond fiduciary cooperation to a share set of beliefs, values, and distinctives. The SBC is a massive network of missional churches.
In my experience, the younger generation loves the mission of the SBC. The beliefs, values, and distinctives of the network of churches are shared among the various generations, including the 3gens. But at the same time, they question whether the bureaucracy of the convention is accomplishing its intended objective, which is to be a cooperative missionary effort. The 3gens I have observed love the seminary where they were educated and love the IMB and perhaps NAMB, but outside of those agencies they appear ambivalent. They may be mistaken to be ambivalent, but their love for the work of the convention should not be hidden by their lack support for all of the boards.
3gens don’t respect the CR or 1gen leaders. From observation it is more accurate to say that many 3gens do not know the leaders of the Conservative Resurgence. There may be practical reasons for this (e.g. Danny Akin and Johnny Hunt are on iTunes for free, while other sermons must be purchased), but it is also the case that many 3gens believe, perhaps mistakenly, that 1gen leaders do not value them as partners in the work of the convention. 3gens do not think their “forefathers” are not wise, they simply do not know them.
What complicates the matter vis-à-vis the relationship between some increasingly prominent 3gens and the SBC is the lack of direct influence by 1st generation leaders on 3gens. In part two of the series, I enumerated some ways I think the CR continues to influence younger SBs, but that influence has been indirect, mediated through leaders such as Johnny Hunt, Danny Akin, and James Merritt. There are exceptions; for example J.D. Greear’s PhD work was supervised by Paige Patterson. By and large, though, 3gens have sermons from Platt, Akin, Hunt, and Driscoll on their iPods, and not sermons from Vines, Patterson, and Rogers.
I don’t know all the reasons for this lack of exposure. Perhaps the second-generation influencers have been quicker to take advantage of newer media such as podcasting and social media. Many younger SBs, and their pastors, do not subscribe to tape ministries, but to podcasts. They rarely listen to over-the-air radio, and almost never to Christian radio. If they hear a John MacArthur sermon, it is because they downloaded it. John Piper was one of the first of their influencers to leave the expensive medium of radio for the relatively inexpensive one of the internet.
Perhaps 3gens have deliberately rejected the direct influence of 1st generation leaders for cultural reasons. They reject suits and ties as mandatory dress, and think the first generation places too much emphasis on certain apparel (fairly or not). They don’t think mandatory abstinence from beverage alcohol is fundamental to cooperation, and think the prior generation makes too much of this. From my experience, these leaders do not imbibe, but they also don’t think prohibition of such beverages is necessary. But cultural differences seem, in the end, to be of little consequence to the lack of direct influence of 1gens on 3gens. Culture seems to be a red-herring.
Regardless of the lack of direct interaction, in the end, the third generation is very much like the first generation. Theologically they are conservative inerrantists. They are committed to practicing Baptist distinctives, both broadly and more narrowly conceived. They preach the Gospel with fervor. They call sinners to repentance and faith in Jesus. They hate sin, but love sinners. They preach and practice missions at home and abroad. In all these ways, and more, they are the legitimate heirs of resurgence leaders.
So have the third generation conservatives who are enthusiastically supportive of the Great Commission Resurgence leaders such as Hunt and Akin rejected the leaders of the Conservative Resurgence, either consciously or unconsciously? I think they have not. Rather, they are the fruit of the CR. While 3gens may be a generation that knows not Patterson and Pressler, they are nonetheless the legacy of those great leaders. Some under 40′s will attend conferences where the speakers are predominately 1gen leaders. Other under 40′s will prefer conferences where 2gen leaders are the speakers. But both groups of younger SBs are the fruit of the CR.
Henry Chapin (for one generation) and Ugly Kid Joe (for another) recorded a popular song entitled, Cat’s in the Cradle, about a man whose busy-ness keeps him from time with his son. The failure of this man to be a good father comes back to haunt him later when his grown son is not interested in time with his elderly father.
An assessment of the breakdown in the relationship between 1gen and 3gen SBs would be fascinating, and is, I think, important, though beyond my scope here. But the lack of knowledge of 1gen leaders should not be read as a rejection of these men or the resurgence for which they fought. My paternal grandmother died a few years before my birth. I have no knowledge of her, obviously. But my lack of familiarity with her does not mean I disdain her. I do not invoke her name in conversation, but the older I get the more I become aware of her influence in my own life through my father. He doesn’t tell me to exhibit the positive characteristics from my grandmother’s life, I simply do so because he has influenced me. I never knew my grandmother, but her influence persists. Many 3gens have never met or even heard some 1gen leaders, but the influence of the CR persists in and through the ministries of 2gen leaders like Johnny Hunt, Danny Akin, and Thom Rainer (and many others). Although the legacies of certain men may not remain, the legacy of the CR certainly does.
Within the current call for a Great Commission Resurgence lives the legacy of the Conservative Resurgence. Young Southern Baptists who desire to see men, women, and young people around the world hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, become disciples of Jesus, and then grow to be disciple-making disciples are acting consistently with the ultimate aims of the CR. Even more importantly, the call of the GCR to organize the ministries of the SBC and her cooperating state conventions around the mission of the Gospel is at the heart of the call of conservative SBs who desired a renewal of the Convention for the sake of the Convention’s mission, not the Convention’s structure.
The final part of the interview with the LifeWay trio deals with issues of the Emerging Church, Calvinism, challenges for the SBC in the 21st Century, and parting advice for young ministers. The ideas shared by Dr.’s Rainer, Stetzer, and Waggoner are thought provoking and pertinent for young SBC ministers.
[podcast]http://www.baptisttwentyone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/baptist-21_stetzer-rainer-waggpt3a.mp3[/podcast]
Some Quotes from their Interview, part 3:
On the Emerging Church:
Stetzer: Evangelicals are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the theological direction of Emergent. We are seeing a reordering of the Emergent Church movement and will see changes over the coming months…
We need to avoid making broad sweeping generalizations, which cause young leaders to leave or we will drive out another generation. I want biblically faithful BFM affirming emerging churches, traditional churches and contemporary churches on mission together, and stop bombing each other and find ways to work together as the body of Christ.
On Calvinism:
Rainer: There have been a lot of shrill voices on both sides of the Calvinism debate. There are extreme forms of Calvinism that are anti-evangelism and anti-missions, but this is not the norm… We are spending a lot of energy focusing on areas that I do not think are very constructive. I wish we could get about the business of getting all of our collective energy and resources together to be the evangelistic Great Commission missional denomination that we can be.
Stetzer: I cannot get excited about any theological system without real world ministry leading to conversions and church plants. Theology should be measured by its fruit. I am not worried about evangelistic, church planting Calvinism. I am worried about Calvinism that does not reach lost people. That kind of Calvinism will end up dividing our convention because we are passionate about missions and evangelism.
On the future of the SBC:
Stetzer: I think the challenge will be that we do not know how to cooperate when we don’t look alike. The collapse of the methodological consensus will cause us to cooperate not on a paradigm of ministry but on a common confession and a common mission…If current trends continue, the SBC will be smaller, leaner and more focused on God’s global mission.
Waggoner: In our current fragmentation, there are a few things that will hold us together even if our churches look different. These issues are maintaining commitment to Authority of God’s Word and maintaining a commitment to the Great Commission. We can remain cohesive and can continue to cooperate together. Diversity is here permanently in terms of how we look and how we structure our ministries. We will never look as monolithic as we once did. The question is can we maintain unity on the core doctrinal convictions; this will determine what we look like in the future.
Parting advice:
Rainer: Words that Louis Drummond said to me, “Stay godly.” We must be the kind of men that have spiritual leadership at the core of who we are. Nothing else matters if that is not set in stone first. If we focus on the spiritual disciplines we would see a lot of the things that seem important are not important, and we would get the focus that we need.
Waggoner: Have a passionate devotion to God and be faithful in your heart and motives for what you do. And then truly love others; invest in their lives and care for them. You must be in the Word and be engaged with people.
It is our hope that you will give a hearing to these men and that the ideas they express will help us all think through how to be Baptist in the 21st century. We hope that through interviews and ideas with men like this, you will join with us in thinking through how we can:
“continue to cooperate together in the cause of the Gospel. We believe the Gospel is relevant to every man and woman in every culture, as it calls all to repentance of sin and faith in Jesus. Our goal is to bring the gospel to bear on contemporary issues in the church and the world. This will mean engaging culture, using culture, rebuking culture and redeeming culture… Believing that Jesus is the only way to the Father (Jn 14:6), we pray that everything that is done here would ultimately be useful for the exalting of King Jesus so that He might gather all the peoples of the earth into His body, the Church.” (From Baptist21 Purpose Statement)
Make sure to check out:
Part 1: dealing with issues of denominating, young leaders, and church planting
Part 2: which gives advice for church planters and speaks to future books that will be influential
B.W.
Check out past interviews at the Baptist21 Podcast
The 2nd part of the interview with Dr.’s Rainer, Stetzer, and Waggoner is available. These men are helpful in speaking to issues of Church planting as well as church revitalization. They also speak of the influences in their lives and some books that will be out soon that will be helpful to the church.
[podcast]http://www.baptisttwentyone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/baptist-21-interview-stetzer-rainer-waggoner-pt2.mp3[/podcast]
Some of the Questions and Quotes from Part 2:
Stetzer: “Go into church planting for the right reasons…do not plant a church because you have grown to not appreciate the tradition from which you came”
Rainer: “earliest stages after I became a Southern Baptist it was a local pastor”
Waggoner: “The Master Plan of Evangelism by Robert Coleman… Knowing God by J.I. Packer”
Waggoner: “Lost and Found by Ed Stetzer… Transformational Church by Rainer and Stetzer… a series of books called Perspectives… that series will help pastors stay sharp on doctrinal issues”
Please take time to listen to Lifeway President Thom Rainer, Lifeway Research President Ed Stetzer, and Broadman and Holman President Brad Waggoner share on these topics and more here in part 2 of our interview. This will be a great benefit as we seek to be men and women who “cooperate for the future, believing the only hope for the people of the world is the Gospel of King Jesus” (From the Baptist 21 Purpose Statement).
The first part of this interview is available at the Baptist21 Podcast.
(The final part of this interview deals with issues of the emerging church. They address the current state of the emerging church, what the emerging church has to say to traditional churches, and vice-versa. These men also speak to the future of Calvinism in the SBC. In addition, they address the challenges that will face the SBC in the 21st century and how to meet these challenges. Finally, they give advice for young ministers and seminarians who are headed into ministry)
B.W.
Post and Interview by Brandt Waggoner
I am thankful to have the chance to interview Dr. Thom Rainer, Dr. Ed Stetzer, and Dr. Brad Waggoner.
Dr. Rainer is the President of Lifeway Christian Resources and author of many books, most notably Simple Church and the follow-up Essential Church.
Dr. Waggoner is a Vice President of Lifeway and President of B&H Publishing Group, as well as an author most recently of The Shape of Faith to Come.
Dr. Stetzer (who prefers to be called Ed) is director of LifeWay Research and Lifeway’s missiologist in residence. He is author of many books such as Breaking the Missional Code and most recently, Planting Missional Churches.
[podcast]http://www.baptisttwentyone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/baptist-21-interview-stetzer-rainer-waggoner-pt1.mp3[/podcast]
I had the opportunity to meet with these guys at the Lifeway headquarters in Nashville. They all are great friends and enjoy joking around, as you will hear on the podcast. They were great about answering the questions we asked them honestly and straightforwardly, and I think there is a lot of very helpful information in this podcast.
Some Questions and Quotes from Part One:
Rainer: “I am strong proponent of CP, the Missions emphasis, our doctrinal positions. I like the evangelism and mission’s emphasis, but right now, I am not so sure that we are the evangelistic denomination that we once claimed to be. To the contrary I think that we are not nearly as evangelistic as we used to be.”
Stetzer: “I became a SB in college due to believer’s baptism and perseverance of the saints. For me I am SB and work for a SB agency for the missions. I am in this so that we can cooperate together. It is not identification like it was maybe 20-40 years ago before the collapse of the methodological consensus. It is an affiliation; I am together with 48,000 churches and church missions to reach the world for Jesus Christ.”
Waggoner: “it became a theological conviction as I learned the doctrine of the SBC, but initially it was through relationships.”
Stetzer: “A lot of people say this is not the case there are people who seem to have a vested interest in saying young leaders are not leaving. My experience is that there has not been a mass exodus of young leaders who have gone to the left, but there are certainly some. I see young conservative inerrantists leaving over other issues and matters.”
Stetzer: “We are finding that church planting has become a big deal and is the preferred ministry option for some of the best and brightest pastors. When I planted my first church in 1988 people said, ‘can’t you get a real job?’ We will have a conference on church planting in Orlando and have 3,000 people there to learn about church planting. I love the fact that local churches and sometimes networks are joining to plant churches together with a high level of success. I am a church revitalization guy to and I am excited about what we are seeing with denominations coming alongside local churches and supporting these efforts.”
Waggoner: “Based on my experience of planting a church in Chicago, I encourage you to have patience.”
Rainer: “Peter Wagener said that church planting is one of the most evangelistic tools. I think he is right because when you have something new you have the opportunity to reach new groups and contextualize in another indigenous area. I am encouraged to see the great interest in church planting.”
Stetzer: “I would love to see SBC take a year and focus on church planting. Let’s take a year and celebrate the mission, and talk about church planting and evangelism because what you celebrate you become.”
We at Baptist21 believe it is of great benefit to hear from these men. They are very helpful in talking about the future of the SBC, what it will and should look like. We hope that this podcast will help us think through how we can be most effective in our ministry of proclaiming the Gospel of King Jesus in the 21st century and beyond.
Part 2 and 3 will be released in the following days. Some of the topics of conversation in the upcoming parts will include the future of Calvinism, influences on the lives of these men, and the future challenges for Baptists in the 21st Century
